Argo models & bearing extensions

[olargo]

Hi all
Please bear with me - kinda long here. I'm trying to get a clear understanding of which past argo models came with bearing extensions front and rear, as either standard equipment or optional add-on. I'm looking at the period from about 1989 thru to 2004.
I've been looking thru the parts manuals on Beaver Dam Argo studying argo frames (thank you Beaver Dam) as well as reading thru the pages and pages of argo info here...turns out that some of what I thought I understood is in fact wrong. So I thought I would draw on the wealth of knowledge available here, from those who KNOW.
I currently have an '83 6x6 I/C and an '86 8x8 I/C (both have 1 1/4" axles, pinned) and I have supertracks for each. I only run the tracks in snow, and have thought long and hard about my what my needs are regarding track use. I don't do any serious swamping, nor do I foresee any in the future. I'm totally blown away by what Adairs can do (thanks Rock Doc! and others), as well as Escargo, and I am also really impressed with the Chanel track...but after thinking about where and how I use my machines, I don't really "need" those types of tracks (now, that doesn't mean that I don't WANT those tracks!). I really like my machines, but would feel more comfortable with the added support bearing extensions provide.
With that being said, in the near future I will be upgrading to a '99 Vanguard 2 6x6 which has really low hours on it, but no extensions either. It's a deal I just couldn't pass up. I'm also now thinking that I may upgrade the 8x8 in the next year or so. I have no problem buying something used and repairing it, as long as it hasn't been hammered. I'd like a machine with the extensions on it already or which could have them added..., but I need to know which model to look for.
Here's what I think to be correct (please set me straight if/where I am wrong):
Vanguard - no extensions.
Vanguard 2 - option on front, not possible on rear.
Bigfoot - standard on front, option on rear.
Magnum - standard on front, not possible on rear.
Response - standard on front, option on rear.
Conquest - standard on front and rear.
I've also thought about fabricating my own extensions for my 8x8, but I'm not sure that the gauge of the frame material is thick enough to support it. Any thoughts? All help and thoughts appreciated!

Bob

[thebuggyman1]

Hi Bob, welcome to the site.
Bearing extensions can be added to any machine. You may have to drill your own holes to use factory extensions, or make some custom ones like I did here. http://www.6x6world.com/forums/gener...xtensions.html
Adair also sells synthetic bearings that can be stacked to create an extension effect.

[olargo]

Thanks for your reply Jim.

I recall reading your bearing extension thread in the past, but I will have to read it again to refresh my memory.

[ARGOJIM]

olargo your right on tract with what you have found, basically all pre Avenger / Frontier machines only had bearing extensions if there was a round tube shown. My thoughts are to add the Avenger style extensions that transfer lateral shock both ways on the frame, ( providing there is something to bolt to, which may require plating the frame on your older machine to catch the bolts on both ends), if you're happy with your machine consider that or doing like buggyman did, I also think countrycummins did a similar deal on his max4.

[olargo]

Hi ArgoJim
I appreciate your feedback and input. I will have to look into the Avenger style extension, to see if something of that nature will work on my 8x8. I realize that with an older machine I have to be creative and work with what I have regarding frame size, gauge, etc., but that's not a problem.
Reading Buggyman's thread helped me to gain a better understanding of the intent of the bearing extension. I always thought it was intended (as you state) to transfer the lateral load, and prevent the axle from bending, by supporting the axle closer to the flange. But now I realize in addition to that, it also serves to reduce the lever effect of the axle on the bearing nearest the tub.
I've been concerned with bending an axle (specifically front or rear), but I guess that would take quite an impact...when in fact I now see that I should be more concerned with bearing wear/life. And buggyman's extension addresses this...as well as the lateral transfer, to a certain extent, based on the larger-than-the-flange diameter of the UMHW he used. Appears as though there would be more lateral support there than compared to a UMHW extension with the same diameter as the bearing flange. Perhaps not as ridgid as cast aluminum, but very cost effective.
I have braced the axle flanges in a similar manner to that in one of buggyman's pics.
ArgoJim - am I being overly cautious with these axle/flange concerns given that I only run the tracks in snow? Also, is there less strain on the rear axle than the front when running tracks? Trying to understand why argo offered them on the front and not on the rear as often as they did.

[Supermag]

I added some avenger/frontier style bearing extensions on my 1990 magnum witch did not have the rear tube incorporated in the frame. I also know a guy who put older ( conquest/magnum) style extensions on the rear of his magnum. He made the 6 hole bolt patern face the front but did not have good results due to a lack of support from that part of the frame. He had allot of frame flex when hauling loads with his machine. I have no issues with my avenger style extensions. There is lots of room to drill holes in the frame. I just needed to trim my belly pan to fit the extension. I am not certain if the 6x6 frame has room behind the rear bearing to drill the holes. Hope this helps

Dave.

[olargo]

Hi Dave
Thanks for that info. I had wondered about adding a conquest style extension to the rear...just floating ideas in my head for now...but your info regarding flex is good to know.
At the same time, I have not taken a close look at the frame in my 8x8 to see how much frame there is behind the last axle. I think the I/C should be quite similar to your magnum, but that's just a semi-educated guess on my part.
Do you run tracks?
I think I will be selling my 6x6 to make way (that is-free up some cash) for the Vanguard 2 that I have lined up. It currently does not have front extensions, but I will buy a set and install them. Do the bolts for the extensions thread into the frame cross tube?
Thanks again!

[ARGOJIM]

I think I will be selling my 6x6 to make way (that is-free up some cash) for the Vanguard 2 that I have lined up. It currently does not have front extensions, but I will buy a set and install them. Do the bolts for the extensions thread into the frame cross tube?
Thanks again!

The tubes are threaded for 7/16x20 bolts.

[Supermag]

Yes I run supertracks 90% of the time on my Magnum. There are two types of Avenger/Frontier extensions. There are the ones with studs, and ones with threaded inserts. The Threaded insert type accept regular style or HD style outer bearings. The studs on the other ones do not have enough stud length for the HD bearing setup. If you are buying new try to get the threaded insert style. This gives you the option of HD bearings in the future. If you get a good deal on used studded extensions keep in mind that the studs are pressed in and can be replaced with threaded inserts. I will measure my magnum to give you reference of the room required to bolt on some avenger style extensions on the rear of the machine.

Dave

[olargo]

Thank you Argo Jim and Dave - I appreciate the info.
It is very encouraging for me to hear that you added your own extensions AND run tracks that much on your machine.
I was not aware if the 2 different types of Avenger/Frontier extensions... looks like I've got some research homework to do. I like the option of HD bearings.
Once I get the Vanguard 2, I would like to add extensions to the rear of it - sounds like these extensions will be the way to go.
All of this extension business is in the 'planning stage' - I've been installing cupboards and cabinets in the laundry room, so my argo tasks have been put off a bit for the time being. And I don't store my argo's here at the house, so I haven't been bale to just pop out to the garage to check my frame. Maybe later this weekend.
If you don't mind my asking, where in Northern Ontario do you live? I am originally from Sault Ste Marie area.

Bob