Mudd-Ox satisfaction

[kghills]

kghills

This video that you posted of Tim driving the Mudd-Ox when I owned it is my favorite Mudd-Ox video! Tim was really putting on a show that day driving my Mudd-Ox.

I have watched this video MANY time since you posted it in the Adair track thread Dave. It is simply a great AATV video. I understand your reasons for switching to the HDI but man when you watch a big machine like the Mudd-Ox go from forward to reverse and whip around so effortlessly going from a little turn to counter rotating and with the Adair tracks, wow it really looks impressive. I think you are lucky to have owned so many high end machines.

Keith.

[Buzz]

[QUOTE=mudslinger;132510]Thanks mudbug3 for your candid response, it seems my thread struck a nerve with current Mudd-Ox owners, which wasn't my intention and was why I posted my thread on the general discussion forum before Mike the moderator moved it to the Mudd-Ox forum. I really wanted to expose the thread to people that have other machines than the Ox to see if they own something else after having an Ox, knowing that anyone monitoring the Ox forum would most likely not be the person I was looking for. So I lucked out by having you chime in and I appreciate the feedback.

My advice would be just realize that there are a "few" individuals here and all over the internet that seem to be very "anti" mudd-ox. There are many more that are happy but just aren't computer/internet guys. I understand why certain argo dealers (or maybe their customers) attempt to market "against" mudd-ox and other track designs (at least it seems that way).
Current mudd-ox owners will give you the most accurate reports. They know the "current" status of things typically. I don't think a current owner will hide their criticism just because they own one. I won't and would actually try to save you the hassle if that was the case. Improvements have been made since the early versions that a "few" guys had. Customer service doesn't seem to be an issue. I keep seeing bad press that to me seems to be old (and now innacurate) news. The diesels to me seem to improve on any complaints that I could think of with my gas machine- mainly fuel consumption and just running hot if the temps are up (which lowers power). With a cold-air intake, exhaust mods, and proper (not overuse) of RPM, these issues aren't really issues at all. Having clutches on the gas rig gives options as well for further "gearing" improvements. I did just replace the head gaskets at 560 hrs and an electric fuel pump just before that- but not really a big deal and easy to do. Me and every other guy that has a Kohler V-twin on a lawn tractor I guess. Very common. I removed the sheet metal box around the alternator belt for easier access and get plenty of fresh-air to the oil cooler from the passenger side screen even with the cowling on- as the fan on the driver's side pulls lots of air in. Access is now much better to the engine (alternator belt, oil cooler, shrouds, even chains/bearings). Hydraulic system is trouble free, just make sure all hoses are tight and not dripping (mostly when new). Fuses and relays are easy to get to as are the chain tensioners. Hope that helps.

[mudslinger]

Thanks Buzz, and thanks to everyone else that responded, I love all the information that everybody contributes. Just wanted to say Happy Thanksgiving too, hope everyone is enjoying the day and all the great food that goes with it, now please excuse me while I'll loosen my belt and have another helping of apple pie.

[mudbug3]

Buzz

In my previous post I stated that on the second day of owning my Mudd-Ox demo ( 42 hours on it ) the altenator belt broke ,and the automatic fan swtich that cools the hydrolics stopped working. I was able to put the fan switch on manual, but since this was on a sunday, I could'nt buy the altenator belt that I needed. Even on monday only one auto parts store in this small town had an altenator belt that was close to the size that I needed. When I installed the altenator belt it was so short that it barely fit over the altenator pulley. In your post you stated that at 560 hours you had to replace the electric fuel pump. After the problems that I incurred on my used Mudd-Ox the second day that I owned it , this left a HUGE question mark in my mind what could possibly happen next. My friends and I ride at an atv park with several large swamps ,and most of the places that we choose to take our machines are very remote. You can pull a dead argo with a Max IV ,and you can pull a dead Max II or Max IV with an Argo 6x6 or 8x8 back to camp, but you can't pull a dead and heavy Mudd-Ox with either an Argo 8x8 or a Max IV with out smoking the belts on either machine.Even if you disconnect the chains on the Mudd-Ox, or by pass the hydrolics. This leaves a 4x4 truck , jeep or tractor. The atv park that we ride at has all three of these vehicles, but where we choose to ride at , neither the tractor , 4x4 truck , or jeep would be of any help to us. In the back of my mind I could see another mechanical failure that I did't know how to fix, and no one had the time to help me get my dead Mudd-Ox back to camp. This meant I'd have to leave it where it broke down and let it fill up with rain and leaves ,or maybe some atv rider would do some thing to it, like cut the wires or put swamp water in the gas tank. It might be weeks before I could find some one to help me get my Mudd-Ox back to the main camp.Or maybe I'd have to pay a mechanic to fix it and carry him to my stranded Mudd-Ox in my Max IV? Lots of bad senarious passed through my mind. Because I could rarely get Matt on the phone, and none of the Mudd-Ox dealers in the US could answer any mechancal questions that I wanted answered, I always had to call the Mudd-Ox dealer in Alaska. This was another frustration that I had when I owned a Mudd-Ox. From what has been posted recently about Matt ,he has now hired some additional staff at his shop and some one to answer calls too. This did not help me in 2010 though with my Mudd-Ox problems. When you are 125 miles from home ,and some thing mechanical happens to your Mudd-Ox ,and you know so little about it, or any one else that you ask, taking your Mudd-Ox very far from home leaves a huge doubt in your mind that hangs there like a dark cloud. I always worried about a mechanical break down in some remote area of the atv park and no one to help me tow my stranded Mudd-Ox back to camp. From trying to work on my Mudd-Ox I found out that you need the flexability of gumby to be able to change the hydrolic hoses or grease the inner bearing on the second axle. Wildtexasranger had to change out the second axles on both sides and also change the inner and out axle bearings too, and he was so frustrated after working on the Mudd-Ox at his shop, he told me that he'd never work on another Mudd-Ox again! The video's that I see of Mudd-Ox's are always out in open feilds, open areas, or Haspin acreas, which are very accessable if you ever had a break down on a Mudd-Ox. Not being able to call a Mudd-Ox dealer on the phone for parts when I needed them, plus having to remove my tracks each time I had to make chain adjustments really soured me from owing one.

[Noel Woods]

Dave you make some really good points about the machine you owned. I was very worried about the Mudd-Ox breaking down in the swamps we run in East Texas. A machine at Haspin Acres does not face the same challenges we do. I am glad that Matt has additional staff now and that his business is picking up. I know that your 2010 machine had its share of issues. I know that the person that was the next owner ran into a plethora of issues as well. Bent axle, bearings, electrical problems. I have reviewed the photos of the repairs from that timeframe and I agree with you that that machine was a mechanical nightmare. I can't speak on the current generation of Mudd Ox because I haven't seen anything newer than a 2011, so hopefully the ease of maintenance issue, as well as the assembly issues are now a thing of the past. When a machine is built, it needs to be able to be serviced by its owner or local repair shop and shouldn't have to go back to the builder for minor repairs. I really don't see alot of current owners speaking up.

[kghills]

I really don't see alot of current owners speaking up.

Just curious. If the question was about a Centaur or Hydratrek or the new Titan, would you get many comments on this forum? Isn't that more the Mudd-Ox market. Maybe the complaints about working on them would not be complaints if a person was used to working on heavy equipment. I own 3 Bobcat skid steers and refuse to work an any of them because they are a pain and the usually always have issues. The Bobcat dealer seems happy to take my money and they seem to spend a fair amount of time there. The only reason I put up with them is they make a lot of money when or if it snows yet they are considered a very good product. Can you even really compare a Mudd-Ox to something like a Max IV? I think they are two entirely different animals. If you were shopping for a Mudd-Ox what is your alternative? My guess is it is not a 650 HDI or Max IV. would it not be a Titan or something more commercial/industrial? Maybe this is the wrong consumer cross section to even respond to the question.

Keith.

[Cougar]

Buzz

In my previous post I stated that on the second day of owning my Mudd-Ox demo ( 42 hours on it ) the altenator belt broke ,and the automatic fan swtich that cools the hydrolics stopped working. I was able to put the fan switch on manual, but since this was on sunday, I could'nt buy the altenator belt that I needed. Even on monday only one auto parts store in this small town had an altenator belt that was close to the size that I needed. When I installed the altenator belt it was so short that it barely fit over the pulley. In your post you stated that at 560 hours you had to replace the electric fuel pump. After the problems that I incurred on my used Mudd-Ox the second day that I owned it , this left a HUGE question mark in my mind what could possibly happen next. My friends and I ride at an atv park with several large swamps ,and most of the places that we choose to take our machines are very remote. You can pull a dead argo with a Max IV ,and you can pull a dead Max II or Max IV with an Argo 6x6 or 8x8 back to camp, but you can't pull a dead and heavy Mudd-Ox with either an Argo 8x8 or a Max IV with out smoking the belts on either machine.Even if you disconnect the chains on the Mudd-Ox, or by pass the hydrolics. This leaves a 4x4 truck , jeep or tractor. The atv park that we ride at has all three of these vehicles, but where we choose to ride at , neither the tractor , 4x4 truck , or jeep would be of any help to us. Because I could rarely get Matt on the phone, and none of the Mudd-Ox dealers in the US could answer any mechancal questions that I wanted answered, I always had to call the Mudd-Ox dealer in Alaska. This was another frustration that I had when I owned a Mudd-Ox. From what has been posted recently about Matt ,he has now hired some additional staff at his shop and some one to answer calls too. This did not help me in 2010 though with my Mudd-Ox problems. When you are 125 miles from home ,and some thing mechanical happens to your Mudd-Ox ,and you know so little about it, or any one else that you ask, taking your Mudd-Ox very far from home leaves a huge doubt in your mind that hangs there like a dark cloud. I always worried about a mechanical break down in some remote area of the atv park and no one to help me tow my stranded Mudd-Ox back to camp. From trying to work on my Mudd-Ox I found out that you need the flexability of gumby to be able to change the hydrolic hoses or grease the inner bearing on the second axle. Wildtexasranger had to change out the second axles on both sides and also change the inner and out axle bearings too, and he was so frustrated after working on the Mudd-Ox at his shop, he told me that he'd never work on another Mudd-Ox again! The video's that I see of Mudd-Ox's are always out in open feilds, open areas, or Haspin acreas, which are very accessable if you ever had a break down on a Mudd-Ox. Not being able to call a Mudd-Ox dealer on the phone for parts when I needed them, plus having to remove my tracks each time I had to make chain adjustments really soured me from owing one.

When I had Argo I couldn't get parts with out driving 100 miles. A rim from Argo is 95.00 and a rim from Mudd-Ox is 50.00.
Just cause you lost money on your Mudd-Ox is your fault. No one told you to trade it in, everyone knows you don't trade anything in you sell it. When was the last time you and Noel where at Haspin, if you never been there don't say we don't have the same challenges. We have swamps holes that have no bottom in them. Didn't you have a over heating problem with your new Argo that you had to run with the hood off. Didn't you put a new muffler on to try and fix the over heating? I have never had to take my tracks off to make a chain adjustments, I just jack it up and get the tracks off the ground.

Mudslinger I had a Argo it was ok but Argos are not true 6x6 or 8x8 not like a Mudd-Ox or a Max. I would like to get a Max someday just cause their neat. If the Mudd-Ox is so bad like Mudbug says how come you don't see a lot of used Mudd-Oxs for sale? I love mine, but at the end of the day get what you want. Hope this helps.

[mudbug3]

Keith

If I were in the market for a heavy duty 8x8, then I'd choose the Argo Titan. Better designed than the Mudd-Ox, automatic chain tensioners, and much more accessable to work on. Argo could have built a hydrolic 8x8 like the Hydratrek or the Mudd-Ox, but they chose to build a less complicated , lighter weight, and easier to service Argo Titan. The Titan uses the same heavy duty Admiral transmission that has been used for years in the Argo Centaur.

[mudbug3]

Cougar

Yes I have over heating problems with my 2011 Argo Frontier ,and I also changed out the 2011 VERY restrictive muffler for a less restrictive 2008 muffler. I,m still trying to resolve my over heating issues , because the cool air intake runner I built and the 2008 mufflerI installed still have'nt resolved my heat issues.My 2011 Argo Frontier needs vented hood scoop like the Argo 750 HDI. I also had the same over heating issues with the Mudd-Ox when I owned in too ,when I drove it with Adair tracks on it through thick mud for an hour or more. If I cut the motor off after running in thick mud for an hour, my Mudd-Ox would either fail to start right up, or fail to climb the hill that my friend in his 2008 Argo 6x6 had just climbed. I then had to let the motor cool down for a half hour,take the engine cover off, and then reattempt the hill climb again. I tried the same hill climb after removing the engine cover and waiting 30 minutes, and the Mudd-Ox still would'nt make it over the top of the hill that my friends argo 6x6 had just climbed 30 minutes ago. The new admiral ' steering' transmission steers in thick mud so much easier than the HEAVY Mudd-Ox that I used to own. It's like driving an Argo that has power steering when you thread it through the wooded trails compared to the hydrolicly steered Mudd-Ox that I used to own. As far as loosing money when I sold my Mudd-Ox , it does'nt help things when a person I knew who was trying to sell his 2009 Mudd-Ox that he payed Matt $21,999 for, for a price of $17,500 ,and then Matt has a 2009 Mudd-Ox listed for sale for $15,500. Matt was killing the resale value of his own machines! Try selling your Mudd-Ox and see how much of a financial loss that you take on it when compared an argo HDI that was bought for the same price. An Argo HDI in 4 years will have a WHOLE LOT BETTER RESALE VALUE than a Mudd-Ox that's 4 years old!

[Buzz]

I'm trying to be objective and positive, really. No current owners speaking up...Well just how many previous owners have spoken up? Who's opinions or experience holds more merit? Those who solved the problems and made the machines better or those who were legitimately unhappy and gave up. I think both groups can help those who are considering machines. And really what matters most is the "current" status of things. I could care less if anyone wants to badmouth an old chevy diesel as the duramax is now the current offering. I am bothered by the same old same old bashing of the mudd-ox and would actually like to "help" people. Your old machine isn't the only one out there.
How do you determine a value on these machines? I would be willing to bet there are more argos and other AATV's actually getting used in Alaska than anywhere else. (not that it matters) I know without a doubt that a machine is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it's capability... and that they consider other comparable machines. In all honesty, I have seen alot of them, and from what I can tell, mudd-ox's do not fetch a lower price that argos up here. The opposite is actually true. I also agree as stated earlier that an upper-end machine has a much smaller market as there are fewer people who are willing to plunk down over lets say $15,000 for a used 8x8. It just doesn't make sense to most of us. If you buy a new AATV and decide to sell it, you are going to take a huge hit, including all the argos I see up here. As far as maintenance goes, a mudd-ox is very similar to an argo, definitely not worse. Trouble-shooting/tuning the engines are no different. If your climate requires setting up your air-cooled engine to perform better, so be it. If anything, that's a knock against air-cooled engines, not the Mudd-Ox. Regardless, it's easy to make the engine perform better. There is nothing difficult about that. I think the durability of the drivetrain and axle supports to run tracks is an advantage of the mudd-ox as tracks change everything. The durability of the hydraulics are undeniable. A responsible person always carries extra fuses/relays your machine needs as well as extra belts + needed oils as a minimum and a few tools you might just need. Breakdown is always a possibility with anything (or is it just the mudd-ox?) Most of us use our machines much more remotely than you might realize and we don't "worry" anymore than necessary. Learn your machine and be prepared to solve problems as they come up. None of the machines are Honda 4wheelers that can get abused forever. If you're not that type of guy, don't bother. With all due respect, a "few", and I do mean a select few on this forum seem to give give praise one moment (numerous on-line videos and forum threads), then turn right around and dirt-shoot the same machine when they have a chance to look good. Maybe I shouldn't care, but unfortunately some people only know what they have researched online, and I don't want them to be lead astray. Could some of the older mudd-ox's use some tweaking? Sure, but they have far more potential than the competition out there.

[Cougar]

I'm trying to be objective and positive, really. No current owners speaking up...Well just how many previous owners have spoken up? Who's opinions or experience holds more merit? Those who solved the problems and made the machines better or those who were legitimately unhappy and gave up. I think both groups can help those who are considering machines. And really what matters most is the "current" status of things. I could care less if anyone wants to badmouth an old chevy diesel as the duramax is now the current offering. I am bothered by the same old same old bashing of the mudd-ox and would actually like to "help" people. Your old machine isn't the only one out there.
How do you determine a value on these machines? I would be willing to bet there are more argos and other AATV's actually getting used in Alaska than anywhere else. (not that it matters) I know without a doubt that a machine is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it's capability... and that they consider other comparable machines. In all honesty, I have seen alot of them, and from what I can tell, mudd-ox's do not fetch a lower price that argos up here. The opposite is actually true. I also agree as stated earlier that an upper-end machine has a much smaller market as there are fewer people who are willing to plunk down over lets say $15,000 for a used 8x8. It just doesn't make sense to most of us. If you buy a new AATV and decide to sell it, you are going to take a huge hit, including all the argos I see up here. As far as maintenance goes, a mudd-ox is very similar to an argo, definitely not worse. Trouble-shooting/tuning the engines are no different. If your climate requires setting up your air-cooled engine to perform better, so be it. If anything, that's a knock against air-cooled engines, not the Mudd-Ox. Regardless, it's easy to make the engine perform better. There is nothing difficult about that. I think the durability of the drivetrain and axle supports to run tracks is an advantage of the mudd-ox as tracks change everything. The durability of the hydraulics are undeniable. A responsible person always carries extra fuses/relays your machine needs as well as extra belts + needed oils as a minimum and a few tools you might just need. Breakdown is always a possibility with anything (or is it just the mudd-ox?) Most of us use our machines much more remotely than you might realize and we don't "worry" anymore than necessary. Learn your machine and be prepared to solve problems as they come up. None of the machines are Honda 4wheelers that can get abused forever. If you're not that type of guy, don't bother. With all due respect, a "few", and I do mean a select few on this forum seem to give give praise one moment (numerous on-line videos and forum threads), then turn right around and dirt-shoot the same machine when they have a chance to look good. Maybe I shouldn't care, but unfortunately some people only know what they have researched online, and I don't want them to be lead astray. Could some of the older mudd-ox's use some tweaking? Sure, but they have far more potential than the competition out there.

I could not of said it better.

[rentalrider]

Interesting read. I've always considered a mud-ox but have one question that could make or break my decision. How do they float? Not nec. swim as I use an outboard for the large bodies we need to traverse but how is their stability in the water? Especially when loaded...

[Matt O.]

I'm trying to be objective and positive, really. No current owners speaking up...Well just how many previous owners have spoken up? Who's opinions or experience holds more merit? Those who solved the problems and made the machines better or those who were legitimately unhappy and gave up. I think both groups can help those who are considering machines. And really what matters most is the "current" status of things. I could care less if anyone wants to badmouth an old chevy diesel as the duramax is now the current offering. I am bothered by the same old same old bashing of the mudd-ox and would actually like to "help" people. Your old machine isn't the only one out there.
How do you determine a value on these machines? I would be willing to bet there are more argos and other AATV's actually getting used in Alaska than anywhere else. (not that it matters) I know without a doubt that a machine is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it's capability... and that they consider other comparable machines. In all honesty, I have seen alot of them, and from what I can tell, mudd-ox's do not fetch a lower price that argos up here. The opposite is actually true. I also agree as stated earlier that an upper-end machine has a much smaller market as there are fewer people who are willing to plunk down over lets say $15,000 for a used 8x8. It just doesn't make sense to most of us. If you buy a new AATV and decide to sell it, you are going to take a huge hit, including all the argos I see up here. As far as maintenance goes, a mudd-ox is very similar to an argo, definitely not worse. Trouble-shooting/tuning the engines are no different. If your climate requires setting up your air-cooled engine to perform better, so be it. If anything, that's a knock against air-cooled engines, not the Mudd-Ox. Regardless, it's easy to make the engine perform better. There is nothing difficult about that. I think the durability of the drivetrain and axle supports to run tracks is an advantage of the mudd-ox as tracks change everything. The durability of the hydraulics are undeniable. A responsible person always carries extra fuses/relays your machine needs as well as extra belts + needed oils as a minimum and a few tools you might just need. Breakdown is always a possibility with anything (or is it just the mudd-ox?) Most of us use our machines much more remotely than you might realize and we don't "worry" anymore than necessary. Learn your machine and be prepared to solve problems as they come up. None of the machines are Honda 4wheelers that can get abused forever. If you're not that type of guy, don't bother. With all due respect, a "few", and I do mean a select few on this forum seem to give give praise one moment (numerous on-line videos and forum threads), then turn right around and dirt-shoot the same machine when they have a chance to look good. Maybe I shouldn't care, but unfortunately some people only know what they have researched online, and I don't want them to be lead astray. Could some of the older mudd-ox's use some tweaking? Sure, but they have far more potential than the competition out there.

Well said.

Matt

[thebuggyman1]

Interesting read. I've always considered a mud-ox but have one question that could make or break my decision. How do they float? Not nec. swim as I use an outboard for the large bodies we need to traverse but how is their stability in the water? Especially when loaded...

Fortunately, you live close enough for a day trip to Shipshewana IN. Matt has a pond, and some trails behind his shop...perfect for test drives.
It's worth the trip just to check out the old/rare machine collection.

[mudbug3]

[QUOTE=Buzz;132582] A responsible person always carries extra fuses/relays your machine needs as well as extra belts + needed oils as a minimum and a few tools you might just need. Breakdown is always a possibility with anything (or is it just the mudd-ox?) Most of us use our machines much more remotely than you might realize and we don't "worry" anymore than necessary. Learn your machine and be prepared to solve problems as they come up.


When I first received Mudd-Ox I knew very little about it other than the things that I'd read on the web about this machine. Matt talked to me on the phone the day that I got my Mudd-Ox, but never told me ' make sure to carry extra fuses and a spare altenator belt in case it breaks. ' All I was told was to ' enjoy your Mudd-Ox and be safe ' and that was it. Because the Mudd-Ox is still going through so many changes there ' still is'nt an owners manual to read'. If you dont know any thing about the machine that you buy and the person that you buy it from does,nt tell you what to be prepared for,and you don't have an owners manuel to read, problems can happen that you are unprepared for.