? chain windup with rubber tracks - help.....

[Grandsteph]

Hi guys,

I've read all that I could on this forum re: tracks, drive chains, bearings, axles, chain tensioner systems, and chain wind-up. All the info has been very helpful indeed.

So here's the situation: I bought an 04 avenger last spring in great condition (only 83 hours). The machine came with 18 inch argo rubber tracks installed which I removed right away. I put the tracks back on a few weeks ago for the winter but a few things are not sitting right with me. I'm experiencing what I suspect is chain wind-up on the right side.

My axles and bearings are great all around. I have 25 inch rawhide III tires. My chains don't appear to be stretched as I have lots of room left on my tensioners. Essentially, my machine appears mechanically sound.

I followed the installation instructions perfectly (accounting for tire size, positioning, and psi). Took the machine out a few times in the snow and seemed to be pulling to the right. I hoisted the machine and checked out how the chains were performing and here's what I found:

On the left side: all seemed good. Chain was not too tight. I manually turned the track several rotations in all directions and the chain never got too tight.

On the right: all the chains were very tight with no play at all. Were I turned the tracks in reverse a few revolutions, they would become less tight on top. Then I manually turned the tracks forward a few revolutions and they would immediately get super tight......I mean very tight. Not having this issue on the left side. The tensioner slider blocks on the right are under lots of pressure.

I'm guessing this is why the machine is pulling to the right a little because of the added resistance. I really want to solve this problem to avoid premature wear and damage to the machine.

Any suggestions, ideas?

[amphibious drew]

I don't run tracks nor have I ever, but I would research track tuners from adair argo. I am not positive it will solve your issues, but it seems to me they are designed to eliminate excess wrap.

[lewis]

Tire diameter is critical for rubber tracks. The plastic tracks are more forgiving due to slippage. The at189 tire was designed to be a true 25. This will ensure that the tires diameter is true for track use and help stop chain windup. With the at189 tires i have had no trouble with chain windup on my 06 or 11 Avenger.

Rock Doctor is a member that runs tracks probably more that anyone else and he may have some advice.

Hope this helps

[jpswift1]

These might help the issue:

Track Tuners.

adairargosales - adairargosales

[Bazooo guy]

Why not try and lower the tire pressure on that side to loosen the track?

[Grandsteph]

Thanks for the tips. I ordered some Adair track tuners today. Based on the feedback from those who use them, this should solve my problem. I'll let you all know how they perform.

[mudbug3]

Grandsteph


You're going to love the track tuners. They make a huge difference when you're running rubber tracks.

[spookum]

Thanks for the tips. I ordered some Adair track tuners today. Based on the feedback from those who use them, this should solve my problem. I'll let you all know how they perform.

Ya beat me to the punch. Every post i have ever seen has sung the praises of the track tuners! I have yet to find one that said they did not perform! Let us know if you like them too!

[charlie]

You have clearly described my issue only difference is its on my left where yours are on the right, so I dropped the tracks and reset the tensioners and everything seems to be fine now, but at first I thought I had broken something but didnt...Im interested in track tuners as well as I have the wider rubber tracks too...

[Grandsteph]

installed track tuners......still at a loss with chain windup

Hi guys.

Getting a little discouraged here. You may have read my earlier post re: chain windup on my 04 Avenger when using rubber tracks. There was some variation in tire diameter but installation done as per manufacturer instructions. The bearings, axles, and chains all looked to be in great shape. Still......major chain windup issues.

Bought the track tuners and installed them thinking my issues would be solved. Took the argo (with tracks and track tuners) out for a good spin on the lake to test it out. Rode about 8 or 9 miles. Less than 1/3 into my trip, I could smell smoke. Got home and took the floor out of the back end to check out the chains. The chains were very tight and burning hot to the touch. The nylon tensioner blocks were gouged 1/4 inch by the chains. The smoke I was smelling was the chain lube overheated by the hot chains. FYI.....my chains were properly lubed before I took it out.

I can say that before I installed the track tuners, I verified that the bearings, chains, etc. and all were fine. The track is proper length and I have about 2 inch clearence on the bottom when jacked up.

Really not sure what's going on. I have spent many hours installing....uninstalling...installing....uninsta lling...trying different things. If I can't use my machine with tracks without it damaging my machine and costing me time and money.......I'll have to consider selling it.

This is my final attempt at solving this mystery. Any ideas or advice?

[thebuggyman1]

Only a thought, but have you double checked to see if you have a slightly bent axle? I think a small bend could do this without being noticeable when driving

[Howie]

Couple of questions...? Do you have the original continuous loop tracks (1 piece)? If so you might benefit from installing an 825-55 Hinge kit. Also, an 04 Avenger was built with 12 tooth 606-35 chain tensioners and 606-39 slider blocks. The 606-35's would ratchet up for about every 2.5 inches of chain slack (too fast). These can be identified as being a goldish yellow color zinc dichromate finish. These supersede to the current style 606-82 adjusters with just 8 teeth to take up slack about every 3". Make sure you are not running a combination of old and new tensioners. The 606-82 also use the longer (more surface area) 606-44 slider blocks. Also, have you tried reversing the tread direction of the 4 mid axle tires?

[Buzz]

how tight are your chains? Is it possible your tensioners have been levered up to the next notch with a prybar. My only other thought would be that the track is too tight and/or your machine is unhappy with the combination of tire diameter you have on the front/rear as differences here will still be seen as resistance to forward movement and increased tension in the chains. The tuners should make everything feel better. Unless something else starting with the transmission is causing increased resistance...
To get the slack out of the chains (while jacked up with tracks off), I've always rolled the tire so that the slack comes out of the top of the chain and can be taken up with the tensioner on the bottom. You may have to have someone hold the tire while you do it. I would then remove the front/rear tires and inflate them so that they are the same diameter (make note of the p.s.i. in each) and then re-install the tires. The front/rear tires will have almost all of the affect on track tension, so you may have to add/remove air to both (at the same rate hopefully) to get the track tension correct. That is about the best you could do, unless there is another gremlin. But proper chain tightening (allow for a small deflection..shouldn't be so tight that the chain won't deflect at all) and tire diameter are must-do's. I know I'm probably stating the obvious...just wanted to make sure.

[Obsessed]

hello,

a lot of good advise here and i agree with the last comment that Buzz made about trying to true up the size of the front and back tire...

im curious...what are the actual sizes of each of your tires after your inflated them to a common number?....with the track tuners installed this normally eliminates most of the binding because the largest tires in the center now just free wheel...there is a possibility that the two smallest tires (the one on the front, and the one on the back) are still quite a bit different in size. I have seen 24" argo tires very as much as 7" in actuall circumference....normally the 25" tires are within about 5"...if you had 4 tires on one side that measured lets say 74", "78, 78.5", and 79" then continuing to drive the 74" and the 78" would still result in a lot of binding.....in this unusuall situation, i would elect to run the 78" on the front and the 78.5" on the back and then put the 79" under the drivers feet, and run the little one in the 3rd position...this would greatly minimize your miss matched circumfrances and still keep the front tire slightly smaller so that in a forward direction, the light tension is on the top of the chain loop and not on the bottom chain tensioners.......this might help you figure out what is going on

BTW...i just got re-thinking your comments...you said there is now a lot of tension on the bottom of the chain loops (on the chain tensioner side) and it is eating up the plastic chain slides????? (assuming most of your time is spent going forward direction) if the tires are on correctly and the front tire is slightly smaller, but close to the size of the back tire, the binding that occures still should not effect the chain tensioners,,,unless the chains are just loose enough that the auto adjusting chain tensioners are self ratcheting up one notch too tight when the frame flexes....some dealers have had success slightly tying down the tensioners with a zip-tie to make sure they dont jump up a notch on accident because of this.....

sorry for any hassle you have had, but you are getting to know your machine very well, and if you stick with it just a little bit longer we should all be able to help you figure it out...

please let us know the actual size and specific position of the individual tires on your machine

hang in there,

tim